Amber Kirby and Aaron White of CIBC join Tom Heintzman, Vice Chair, Energy and Climate Finance to discuss the key takeaways from the 3rd annual CIBC Carbon Summit, and how participants are navigating the carbon management landscape, including financing mechanisms and carbon dioxide removal approaches, in response to evolving policies.
Tom Heintzman: Welcome to The Sustainability Agenda, a podcast series focusing on the evolving complexities of the sustainability landscape. I'm your host, Tom Heintzman. Please join me as we explore today's most pressing issues with special guests that will give you some new perspectives and help you make sense of what really matters.
Aaron White: The key takeaway for those in attendance is that financial markets are looking to get creative to build solutions that meet the need now for project developers within this industry. And we're excited about the solutions that are coming to market in order to execute against the challenges they face.
Tom Heintzman: Welcome to our multi-part series on carbon dioxide capture, removal, and the carbon markets. Over recent episodes, we explored different aspects of the carbon management landscape, including why Canada makes a strong market for carbon removals, the EU carbon border adjustment’s trade impact, and evolving global carbon markets amid reforms and integration. These episodes were a precursor to this year's third annual CIBC Carbon Summit, which took place in Toronto on October 23rd, 2025. This year, we welcomed over 200 participants from Canada, the U.S. and Europe, including project developers, capital providers, corporates and policy makers. The full day program featured six panels, two fireside chats and two keynote addresses on such topics as Canadian carbon policy, lessons from successful carbon capture projects, innovative financing, and evolving investment strategies, among others. Keynotes included Shashank Atreya of Wood Mackenzie on compliance and voluntary market trends, and Noah Deich, former US DOE's Deputy Assistant Secretary for Carbon Management and current Senior Advisor to Carbon 180 on US carbon management policy and global progress compared to North America. On today's episode, we'll take a deeper dive into the key takeaways from the Carbon Summit and how participants are navigating the carbon management landscape, including financing mechanisms and carbon dioxide removal approaches in response to evolving policies. Joining me to provide further insights from the event are my CIBC colleagues, Amber Kirby, Executive Director in Corporate Solutions Group within CIBC Global Market space in Calgary; and Aaron White, Executive Director and Head for Sustainable Investments within CIBC Asset Management based in Toronto. Amber moderated a panel on the future of direct air capture, while Aaron was a panelist in our session on carbon offtake structuring and non-dilutive financing solutions. Welcome, Amber and Aaron, and thanks for joining the show.
Amber Kirby: Thank you.
Aaron White: Thanks, Tom.
Tom Heintzman: Okay, question for both of you. Let's start with your overall impressions from the summit. I'm curious what resonated with each of you or stood out to both of you the most and why.
Amber Kirby: You can go ahead, Aaron.
Aaron White: Thanks, Amber. I think this was my third year attending the conference. It's always an amazing conference, hear all the progress that takes place across the year in the carbon management industry. It seems like every year is five years of progress in any other industry. But this year, I think in particular, I expected maybe the temperament of the various panelists and participants to maybe take a negative tone relative to other years. And it was incredible, the optimism that we heard across the stage, both the keynotes, I think, were fantastic in articulating the continued momentum and opportunity across markets globally. I think one of the biggest takeaways that to me was really exciting is the number of projects we heard about maybe confidentially or already publicly announced that we're reaching FID and the number of offtake agreements that have continued to be signed across the industry just really highlighted that this is a fast moving industry that's ripe with opportunity for both investors, the lens I take in it, and then also for broadly capital markets in the business.
Amber Kirby: This was my first Carbon Summit, just joined CIBC this year. So yeah, I was really encouraged by the amount of activity we heard about and the promise offered by the Canadian market in particular. As we do see a bit of a pullback on environmental commitments in some other jurisdictions, we are seeing quite a few projects getting going in Canada, such as the Deep Sky project that I had the pleasure of learning more about, in preparation for my panel. And I think we have seen a shift in the last couple of years from environmental concerns being the primary motivation for doing projects to having to have a little bit more focus on affordability, reliability in addition to environmental stewardship. So I think we are seeing, and I think it was kind of echoed from a few panels about environmental projects having to sharpen their pencils, ensure they have viable projects from an economic and regulatory perspective, but also reputational perspective. Also, when we do see investors looking to invest, I do see them wanting to be a little bit more hands-on and involved with the project and wanting to make sure that they are, you know, making responsible investments, whether that be investments I enabling new project technologies or investments in buying offsets from projects that are already up and running. I thought Jane Kearns from Evok Innovations had some really good comments about making sure the projects are, have all their ducks in a row for getting financing and making sure that they have some clear expectations of where the offtake is going to be. And then one other comment, there was a comment about the Tier market and there being a lack of demand in that market and that being the reason why there is such soft prices these days. But I think it's also worth noting that that market has also been effective in generating really significant emission reductions on an intensity basis and a build out of renewable power as well as many offset projects that have been initiated when project developers saw the opportunity to make meaningful carbon reductions in cost efficient ways. And so that's also part of the reason why the prices are so soft there is there has been a significant amount of supply added through that market.
Tom Heintzman: Aaron, you were on the panel entitled Carbon Offtake and Non-Dilutive Financing Solutions, which also included Dorian Grosjean, financial officer in the Treasury Group at the World Bank, and was moderated by Sid Samarth, head of sustainable finance at CIBC Capital Markets. I'm interested in your perspective on the innovative financing solutions that were discussed and your top takeaways from the discussion. Maybe you could give a quick overview of the various financing instruments and your reflections on them.
Aaron White: Yeah, thanks, Tom. I think at the core of what we were trying to get within the discussion was how do we solve the challenge that project developers are facing actually getting projects to scale and explore multiple different thoughts in terms of solutions that capital markets are trying to bring to the carbon management industry to get that done. Dorian highlighted all the great work that the World Bank is undertaking with the development and implementation of their impact bond framework as what I would say is a fantastic roadmap for other financial institutions to replicate in terms of really driving public markets capital into an area that needs private markets like investment. It was very exciting to hear all the work that Dorian has done and the various projects that they've been able to accomplish with the World Bank and setting that roadmap to scale. My part of the panel really focused on a solution we're developing here at CIBC, which is exactly to bring that private markets focus and lens into financing projects and getting them ultimately to scale and being able to deliver their offtake agreements. And so, you know, we're trying to work with project developers in a very collaborative way to bring them the financing solution that they need that's bespoke, both from an underwriting perspective, but also from a structuring perspective, which is often times the hurdles that those project developers are facing in terms of building out their cap stack. So ultimately, what I think the summary of the panel from the key takeaway for those in attendance is that financial markets are looking to get creative to build solutions that meet the need now for project developers within this industry. And we're excited about the solutions that are coming to market in order to execute against the challenges they face.
Tom Heintzman: Amber, you moderated a panel on the future of direct air capture, and it featured, as you mentioned, Deep Sky, as well as Carbon Capture, which is one of the several companies that have their technologies at the Deep Sky facility in Alberta. Can you summarize for our listeners a little bit more about the nature of the Deep Sky project? and some of your key observations from that discussion and your top takeaways.
Amber Kirby: I had the pleasure of moderating Megan Kenney of Carbon Capture Inc. and Jason Vanderheyden of Deep Sky. Like you said, Deep Sky has a facility set up in Innisfail, Alberta, where they can host up to 10 different direct air capture technologies to be deployed and tested side by side with standardized instrumentation for the collection of operational data. And Carbon Capture Inc is one of those technologies that has recently located at their facility and is starting to become operational. Some of the key things that Megan highlighted was because Carbon Capture Inc’ technology provides, it's about the size of a standard shipping container and it does provide modular scalable carbon capture technology. And she had recently had this project originally planned to be in Arizona and then they moved it to Deep Sky's facility in Innisfail, Alberta when a lot of the funding from the US was cancelled. So she really highlighted how impactful it was to have Deep Sky enable them to test their technology out and some of the benefits that Deep Sky had offered such as the infrastructure they're providing and being powered by solar power. Megan communicated that that would not have been something that would have been financially feasible for them to do with their technologies. They were really able to leverage that with Deep Sky, which was super helpful. And I think also the level of community engagement that Deep Sky has successfully completed with the town of Innisfail and I understood they're doing the same level of community investment and consultation in their new projects that they're working on. I was actually at a presentation previously where the mayor of Innisfail and the president of Deep Sky were talking about the collaboration that happened and the community consultation that happened and was engaged throughout the permitting process and how valuable that was in getting community buy-in and support. And both of like the community as well as Deep Sky were seemed very enthusiastic and excited about the project. So I think that was key. Yeah, and I think Deep Sky kind of reiterated that Canadian focus and how they've found lots of regulatory support, cutting edge technology, skilled workforce, and the geology for CO2 storage has been really a couple of the things why they're expanding in Canada. Tom, this was the third annual Carbon Summit and I'm sure you've seen a lot of change in the carbon markets over the span of the last three years. Why was it important for CIBC to host this event and what progress or changes have you noticed over this year versus previous years?
Tom Heintzman: I think the event is important because it pulls people together once a year to reflect on both progress and the path forward. We're all so busy in our day-to-day lives dealing with the problems of the day or the week. And it's not often that we get the chance to sit back and take stock on accomplishments and challenges. And so that's what the Carbon Summit provides for me, as well as bringing together 200 plus of the top leaders in the carbon space every year. That obviously in just in and of itself is an interesting exercise. In terms of what I noticed this year, I'd echo a few of the points that both of you have made. One is when we started it three years ago now, it was largely ideas, exciting ideas, but ideas nonetheless. Over the course of three years, many of these projects have matured and are now hitting financial close or starting deployment like the Deep Sky project that you were talking about, Amber. But there are many other examples and many more next year in 2026 that are scheduled to hit FIDs. So there's a real maturation going on, which is nice to see. The second thing, as Aaron pointed out, there could have been cause for gloom in the room as a result of some of the changes in policy in North America, both in Canada and in the United States. However, what was much louder for me was all of the innovation and creativity that's going on. And I didn't sense any, I sensed some pivoting and some changes in plans and maybe even some acceleration. But there was a lot of creativity and new projects and new ideas. And Amber, you mentioned Carbon Capture coming up from the US to deploy in Alberta. And that's happening in a couple of instances. The 45Q is still in place, which is the US tax incentive for carbon capture. And so I don't see this slowing down, which is heartening. And then maybe the third thing I would point to is this year more than most, I noticed talks about natural gas and blue power, which is electricity produced by natural gas along with carbon sequestration. That may be because Google has just announced a recent purchase of electricity. And historically, they would have done renewable electricity or maybe nuclear. But starting to account blue power with the carbon sequestration that it entails. That's a reasonably big change. I think for some people that might be concerning, but it may actually really hasten widespread carbon capture. We've been looking for the leaders in the carbon capture field and there's lots of innovative technologies, but there have to be some some leaders in terms of procurement. Microsoft has done a good job, obviously, with entering into offtakes for lots and lots of carbon projects. But boy, if the hyperscalers got involved and started to procure power and have carbon sequestration as a part of that, that would be a pretty profound change. So those would be the three main takeaways I had. Well, Amber and Aaron, we're going to wrap it up here. We had many business leaders, project developers, political change makers attending. Since you each come to the table with different perspectives, how might you see companies perceiving what was discussed here? So step outside of yourselves, but our clients, how do you think they would have perceived what was discussed at the conference? And what do you see as the opportunities emerging for our clients in carbon management over the short to medium term?
Amber Kirby: One of the things that I really took away from the conference is the importance on for project developers and investors to, you know, there's always going to be uncertainty in environmental markets. There's a lot of things changing all the time, depending on who the political party might be in power and the kind of the will of the voters. And so in order to survive and thrive in these environmental markets, the projects need to make sure that they set themselves up to access multiple markets and make sure they're aware of all the different funding opportunities there are, whether that be tax incentives or credits in multiple different markets and making sure that they are able to access those many different markets and able to pivot when necessary. So again, highlighting carbon capture's ability to move their project from Arizona up to Alberta in order to capitalize on that. Some of the things in Alberta, they enabled renewables projects to split the facility to be able to offer RECs or offsets depending on who your off-taker is. And that was extremely valuable to renewables projects trying to get built and finding being able to access the broadest market possible. I think too with voluntary offsets, making sure that you are keeping aware of all the different things you can offer in terms of co-benefits or co-locating or a lot of the other things that different buyers might find valuable. So making sure that you are keeping your projects flexible and aware of the different incentives that might be available, making sure that you're accessing as many as possible.
Tom Heintzman: You mentioned RECs and offsets. Many of our listeners will be familiar with the REC term, but if you could just explain what it is for those that aren't and distinguish it from offsets.
Amber Kirby: You bet. So when a renewable energy facility is built, so that would be wind, solar, hydro, geothermal, they're producing a megawatt of electricity and a renewable energy credit. That renewable energy credit can be used by buyers. They can retire a renewable energy credit in order to recognize their investment in renewable energy and reduce the scope 2 emission, which is the emissions associated with electricity consumption. And so that appeals to companies looking to invest in environmental attributes for their sustainability purposes. On the other hand, creating an offset with renewable electricity recognizes the grid power that is being displaced by renewable energy coming online and therefore there's a credit of the carbon emission reduction. And that offset is eligible for compliance with the Tier carbon market. So that environmental, that form of environmental attribute appeals to compliance entities in Alberta. And so you kind of can access either the sustainability track or the compliance track and just opens up the biggest market possible. To be clear, the renewable project can only offer one or the other for each megawatt of power. So making sure there's no double counting of credits, but being able to be flexible with a portion of the megawatts can provide REC and a portion of the megawatts produced can provide offsets and you're able to market your project as widely as possible.
Tom Heintzman: Perfect, thanks. And Aaron, over to you for the final word. How do you think clients saw the day, saw the carbon summit, and where do you think the opportunities are emerging for our clients in carbon management over the short to medium term?
Aaron White: Yeah, so I think I bring maybe a little bit of a different perspective in terms of how clients should perceive the day. I mean, the biggest risk for my clients here at CIBC is really in the investment transition risk associated with their portfolios. And the momentum that we saw this year, and that was highlighted in the carbon capture and hard to abate in industrial sectors panel, is really the progress that we've made in modularizing technology and being able to implement it in some of these sectors and industries where are the highest emitting within the economy. We saw tremendous progress in the nature-based solutions panel. And projects actually getting to completion and beginning to produce credits. And for me, that tells clients that the carbon management ecosystem is going to play a very large role as we move forward from here in terms of reducing overall transition risk. And our corporate clients at CIBC should value the momentum of this industry in terms of really achieving their own net zero ambitions. Secondly to that, I think there is emerging opportunities from an investment perspective to take advantage of the opportunistic growth within this sector and industry. And CIBC is well positioned to bring new and innovative solutions to market to help investors participate in that growth and solve some of the largest challenges that are facing the industry as a whole.
Tom Heintzman: Well, thanks, Amber and Aaron for joining us at the Carbon Summit and taking the time to join the show today. And thank you to the listeners for tuning in. Please join us next time as we tackle some of sustainability's biggest questions, providing you different perspectives to help you move forward. I'm your host, Tom Heintzman, and this is The Sustainability Agenda.
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